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McDougall And Campbell.

McDougall And Campbell.

violaseward38 (View posts)
Posted: 11 Sep 2001 8:45PM GMT
Classification: Query
Edited: 30 Sep 2001 4:24PM GMT
Surnames: McDougall, Ilchee, Heister-Heisler, Landry. Shaw.
John Dow McDougall married Rebecca Campbell in Clonsmore, Iverness, Scotland. Had 4 known sons and 2 daughers. John Jr, Alebxander, Donald and SDuncan. One sister married Angus Shaw and the other stayed in Scotland. Do not know when my McDougalls came to Canada but tis said Duncans children were born there and that would be ca 1780?? Duncan and wife died young leaving three small children. Henrietta, Duncan Jr and Mary Ann. Alexander McDougall and Angus Shaw raised said children. Fact is my Duncan was mgr of Hudson Bay Company. Duncan Jr married three times but denied all marriages because HBC frowned on white men marring native women. But Duncan married Ilchee Dau of Chinook Chief Concomley and had son Caleb. Next married Heister or Heisler and had George and Ann. Next married Marie Landry and had dau Catherine in 1818. Duncan died in fall of 1818.
My McDougall line.
Viola.

Re: McDougall And Campbell.

TShergold20 (View posts)
Posted: 16 Feb 2008 2:55AM GMT
Classification: Query
Duncan McDougall of the North West Company is my ancestor as well.

I researched Duncan & Iliche having a son named Caleb and found out that the information Viola refers to is from a historical fiction book called "Columbia". I contacted the author Pamela Jekel to find out if there was any truth to Duncan's part of her story and she said that the son, Caleb, is fictional. Although Duncan was married to Iliche from 1812 to when he left in the spring of 1817, so it is certainly possible that they had children, but so far I cannot find any mention of any children from the two of them.

If anyone finds any more information on Duncan McDougall Jr or Sr of the NWC, please contact me. Thanks much.

T

Re: McDougall And Campbell.

ladyrose60 (View posts)
Posted: 9 Mar 2010 2:03AM GMT
Classification: Query
I have a Cecile McDougall born about 1810. Her father was from Scotland and her mother native. She married Jacques Lavigne. This was in Quebec. Where does your Duncan travel?

Re: McDougall And Campbell.

TShergold20 (View posts)
Posted: 9 Mar 2010 3:51AM GMT
Classification: Query
Surnames: McDougall / Landry / Montour / Shaw
Hi LadyRose60,

There were a couple of McDougall's in western Canada around 1810. My GGG Grandfather was Duncan McDougall Jr of the Northwest Company. We assume born ca. 1780 in Canada since his father (Duncan Sr) married Isabelle Shaw, Metis (sister to Angus Shaw)here in Canada - however the Dictionary of Canadian Biography says otherwise. We know his father (Duncan Sr) was born in Scotland but assume Duncan Jr was born in Canada.

Below is a copy of the information from the Dictionary of Canadian Biography Online about Duncan McDougall Jr. Unfortunately we don't know much more than that. However my GG Grandmother, Catherine McDougall's Metis Scrip says her father is Duncan McDougall (Metis) and her mother is Marie Landry/Montour (also Metis). We don't know if Catherine had any sisters or brothers.

Your Cecile McDougall could be from Duncan Jr or there was a James McDougall in the area as well. I believe James was with the Northwest Company as well and in Western Canada at the same time as Duncan. It's unfortunate that the attitude towards "Country Wives" was that they were basically trade goods and unimportant. There were a few exceptions of course, however for the most part that was the attitude. It has been extremely difficult trying to trace our ancestors prior to Duncan and Marie.

Anyway, here is the copy from the Dictionary...
=========================================================
McDOUGALL, DUNCAN, fur trader; b. probably in Scotland, son of Duncan McDougall, a lieutenant in the 84th Foot, and his wife, – Shaw; d. 25 Oct. 1818 at Fort Bas-de-la-Rivière (Fort Alexander, Man.).

Duncan McDougall’s parents died when he was a boy, and it was presumably through his uncles Angus Shaw* and Alexander McDougall*, both partners in the North West Company, that he entered the firm as a clerk, probably in 1801. In the spring of 1803 Simon McTavish, the NWC’s leading partner, decided to challenge the Hudson’s Bay Company on its own ground, and Duncan McDougall took part in the scheme. A 150-ton schooner sailed to Hudson Bay to meet an overland party from Montreal. While John George McTavish* built Fort St Andrews on Charlton Island in James Bay that summer, McDougall set up a post on what became known as the Fort George River (Grande Rivière, Que.), helped by one John Hester, evidently a native descendant of James Hester, HBC officer at Fort Albany (Ont.) in the 1760s. McDougall’s trade that winter was poor, however, owing to opposition from George Atkinson (Sneppy), a native-born HBC man with strong Indian ties.

In the summer of 1804 McDougall began building winter quarters at the mouth of Great Whale River (Grande Rivière de la Baleine, Que.), but he was apparently recalled to Charlton Island before the house was finished. He was probably in charge of the Nor’Westers on the Fort George River in 1804–5; certainly he was there in 1805–6 as a rival to HBC men Atkinson and Thomas Alder, who complained of the Nor’Westers’ threats and violence. Neither company gained from the rivalry, and in mid 1806 the Nor’Westers burned their house and departed. In February 1807 HBC officer George Gladman noted that they had “entirely evacuated the Bay.” McDougall left behind two children, George and Anne, whom Gladman listed in the Eastmain post register on 21 Aug. 1808 along with their mother, Nancy Hesther.

McDougall is next on record as one of the ex-Nor’Westers who founded Astoria (Oreg.) on the Columbia River: On 10 March 1810 John Jacob Astor* enlisted him, Alexander MacKay, and Donald McKenzie*, among others, as partners in the Pacific Fur Company and on 6 September McDougall sailed from New York City on the Tonquin (Capt. Jonathan Thorn) as Astor’s proxy, reaching the Columbia in late March 1811. He oversaw the building of Fort Astoria that spring, and the sending inland of several trading and exploring expeditions. On 15 July 1811 an NWC party led by David Thompson* arrived for a brief visit. Finding an American post in a region they had hoped to control, the Nor’Westers agreed not to encroach on its trade if the Astorians confined themselves to the west side of the Rocky Mountains.

The position of the Pacific Fur Company proved less secure, however, than the traders of either firm then realized. Only later did news reach McDougall of the loss of the Tonquin and its men, including partner Alexander MacKay, in a conflict with Indians in Clayoquot Sound (B.C.). On 18 Jan. 1812 the Astorians were cheered by the arrival of their colleagues Donald McKenzie and Robert McClellan (McLellan) after an arduous overland journey from St Louis (Mo.), and on 15 February another party of overlanders arrived. Prospects were discouraging, nevertheless, because of supply shortages, illness, and other problems; and McClellan and Ramsay Crooks*, who had been recruited from Missouri River trading ventures, resigned their shares. Then, although Astor’s ship, the Beaver, arrived safely at the post from New York in May 1812, her planned return visit later that year was aborted because of damage suffered during her travel to Russian posts in Alaska.

On 13 Jan. 1813 Donald McKenzie arrived at Astoria from inland, having learned from Nor’Wester John George McTavish that Great Britain and the United States were at war and that a British warship was being sent to the Columbia that spring to block the American trade. McTavish himself arrived at Astoria in September, confirming the news to his old James Bay associate and setting up a large encampment of Nor’Westers near the fort. McDougall, who expected an armed challenge to the American presence and who also, by some accounts, had improper sympathies with his former North West colleagues, commenced bargaining to sell Astoria. On 16 Oct. 1813 an agreement was signed that gave possession of the fort to the Nor’Westers; and on 30 November the Racoon arrived to support British claims. The post was renamed Fort George, and on Christmas Day McDougall accepted his own reinstatement in the NWC.

In the mean time, he had cemented trade ties with the local Chinook chief Comcomly by marrying his daughter on 20 July 1813. Alexander Henry recorded that the transactions associated with the marriage were spread over a considerable period; on 26 April 1814 McDougall paid Comcomly the last of a bride-price of “15 guns and 15 blankets, besides a great deal of other property, as the total cost of this precious lady.”
McDougall became a partner in the NWC in 1816. He remained at Fort George until 16 April 1817, when he left to journey east with Angus Bethune*, Ross Cox*, and others. Upon reaching Fort William (Thunder Bay, Ont.), he agreed to take charge of the Winnipeg River district and travelled there in August. He “died a miserable death,” cause unrecorded, at Bas-de-la-Rivière on 25 Oct. 1818.

McDougall’s will of 28 March 1817 offered a spirited defence of the most questionable phase of his career, his conduct at Fort Astoria in 1813. Leaving all his papers to Alexander McDougall, he affirmed they would show “that I did every thing in my power to do the utmost justice to the trust and confidence reposed in me by John Jacob Astor . . . agreeable to, and in conformity with, the Resolves of the Company passed and signed by my late Associates and myself,” and that they would demonstrate “how much and how unjustly my character and reputation has suffered and been injured by the malicious and ungenerous conduct of some of my late Associates in the late Pacific Fur Company.” Other legatees included two sisters, his maternal aunt and her daughters, and “my reputed or rather adopted son George McDougall.” A codicil of 15 Oct. 1818 added, “Should there be any means of aiding my little Daughter in James Bay I should feel happy.”

By Jennifer S. H. Brown
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Hope you have better luck finding Cecile McDougall than I've had with Catherine McDougall. Do you know of a Marie Angelique that's connected with your Cecile?

Good luck and hope to hear from you soon,

T

Re: McDougall And Campbell.

ladyrose60 (View posts)
Posted: 9 Mar 2010 2:24PM GMT
Classification: Query
I have two documents that you can peruse. Both names are on there but I'm not sure what the dates stand for. DesAnges is also a name "Angel or Angelique". These McDougalls may all have descendants now on Turtle Island, Oka, Kahnesetake Reserve. Their Chief is David McDougall. I will be contacting that reserve because my Cecile is there too. Have fun with this. It's interesting.
Attachments:

Re: McDougall And Campbell.

TShergold20 (View posts)
Posted: 10 Mar 2010 1:21AM GMT
Classification: Query
Hi LadyRose60,

Thanks very much for the information. I'm going to assume that the three columns at the end of the page are father, mother and spouse. The date columns look like they could be birth date and baptismal date - particularly if they had two churches there at that time (St. Gabriel and L'Assumption). If that is the case, then I don't think that Catherine and Marie Angelique are mine because mine were born in the early 1800's. As well, the father, mother and spouse names are wrong.

My Catherine McDougall homesteaded in the Lac La Biche, Alberta area and was born in/near Peace River, Alberta.

Thank you SO much for sharing the information that you have though, I deeply appreciate it. When you find out for sure what the dates stand for let me know, okay? I suppose there's a slim chance, that she could've been registered by someone else, but in 1873 Catherine would've been in her 60's and probably in no shape to travel to eastern Canada from Alberta.

Is that for sure your Cecile? It can be quite confusing sometimes the way different sources have their information laid out. You definitely have to pay attention to all of the details like I did or you could be going after the wrong person with the same name.

You didn't say where your Cecile was from so I checked out some info that I have. I have a copy of the Northwest Half Breed Scrip from 1885 as well as the Lac La Biche, Alberta Baptisms, Marriges and Burials from 1858 - 1890 BOTH by Gail Morin. Unfortunately, there is no Cecile McDougall in either of them.
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Here are some websites you can check out though - some of them however are for western Canada area (just copy and paste them into your browser address bar if they don't have an automatic link):

http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/public/dgarneau/B.C.htm

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dgarneau/metis-d.htm

http://metisnationdatabase.ualberta.ca/MNC/index.jsp

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~qcmtl-w/index.htm

http://books.google.com/advanced_book_search?q=%22duncan+mcd...

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/02/02010507_e.html

http://www.gov.mb.ca/chc/archives/hbca/index.html

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You've probably looked in some if not all, but it may give you a lead if you haven't. Good luck and hope to hear from you soon!!

T
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